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Saturday, August 13, 2011

Truck Review: Destructo 6.25 and 5.75

I've always wondered about Destructo trucks. They don't have the market saturation that the other truck companies do. People who skate Destructos pretty much stay with Destructos - kind of like Ventures. I took a look at some Destructo models, and decided to get the D2 with improved geometry. I got them in sizes 6.25 (9" axle) and 5.75 (8.5" axle). The nominal sizes were, as normal, rounded up. The 6.25 is pretty close, about 8.85". The 5.75's axle is 8.25". I had two sets of the 6.25 and one set of the 5.75 to test.






The first thing I noticed is that the trucks have impeccable build quality. The casting is absolutely perfect on every truck. The silver color is definitely the way to go to show off the manufacturing excellence. The size is clearly casted into the hanger, along with "mid", indicating the truck's height. The baseplate is mostly hollow - like Venture trucks - and has a kind of badge on the bottom that has a serial number and says "Designed in California. Assembled in PRC" (That's the People's Republic of China.) There are some modest graphics on the hanger, kind of a bar code thing and the Destructo trefoil in the center. The bushings are "Bones Licensed Technology"; from what I can see, they are medium hardness, taller than Bones bushings, and have an all around thinner core insert. They are mounted with no bottom washer and a thin, flat top washer. More about these bushings in the ride portion of this review. The axle nuts were fully threaded on the axle, which actually might not be such a great idea, because the loctite in the axle nuts were already kind of  loose. There wasn't that tightness that comes when you first tighten up the axle nuts on new trucks. This will cause you to need new axle nuts earlier than with most trucks. The axle washers are too thick: the axle nut doesn't snug up on the loctite with both washers. Choose one washer, outside or inside. I chose outside on the 6.25 when I mounted them on an 8.5" deck, and inside when I mounted them on a 9" deck. I chose inside when I mounted the 5.75 on an 8.25" deck. Choosing to put your washers outside or inside pushes the track (distance between wheel centers) of your wheels in or out, respectively. Or, if you still want 2 washers, get some aftermarket ones like Khiro or Black Panthers. They're thinner and will allow washers on both sides.The build quality of the Destructos is such that there are no casting marks on the hanger, and the face to the wheel is flawless, so washers are, actually, only necessary if you want to protect your axle threads. With many other trucks, you have to use washers on the inside because otherwise the casting marks or paint blobs interfere with your bearings.

The second thing I noticed about the Destructos is that they were very lightweight. Eerily light for such wide trucks. The 6.25 weighed 361.5 grams per truck. The 5.75 weighed 350 grams per truck. That's a 9" truck that weighs less than an Independent 139 low (369 grams). And the 8.5" truck weighs less than the Theeve TiAX 5.85 (355 grams) - not too surprising since the Theeve actual axle is 8.6" compared to the Destructo's 8.25. But the Destructo 5.75 also weighs less than 8" Venture Superlights (which weigh 355 grams).

The reverse kingpin on the D2 has both hex and socket options for adjustment. The nut insert in the baseplate is 3 times as long as a normal kingpin nut - that thing is securely fastened in there. This makes it easy to take the hanger off without having to worry about the nut falling down and then having to remove the whole truck - like with Krux trucks - to get the kingpin assembly back together. The downside to reverse kingpins is that steel ones, even grade 8 as mounted in the D2, flex when turning. I don't notice it when I'm riding, but I can see it flex when I pivot the trucks with my hands. This will, no doubt, eventually wear away the nut insert in the aluminum baseplate. If you want to keep the Destructos for a while, be sure to replace the kingpins at some point with standard kingpins. (I intend to do this with some Theeve TiKING kingpins soon. Stay tuned.)

The ride of the trucks is fantastic, but in a certain way. I skate Venture Lows on flatland because they're highly stable and turn very quickly with Bones Bushings in them. Venture axles are pushed out along the wheelbase so that they're more over the truck bolts nearest the ends of the board. Destructos feel a lot like bigger Ventures. Destructos have the same quick turning, the same high stability, as Ventures with Bones Bushings. They're like higher quality Ventures that are available in larger sizes. Nice. In spite of the market trends, there are no current signs that Venture will produce anything larger than their 5.2 wide. Probably suits them, though, as Venture specializes in offering less-expensive trucks that are strongly favored by people who skate smaller boards in the 7.6" - 8.1" range.

Back to the Destructos, however. The D2 geometry is, like I said, reminiscent of Venture low geometry. The trucks are a mid height, and that is an accurate designation. My board felt poppier with these trucks because of the reduced height, but it didn't feel flat like the effect some low trucks have. The stability is highly appreciated in flatland tricks. The trucks are predictable and turn the way I want them to without hesitation. They don't turn surfy and carvy like Theeves, but they turn in a different controlled way: a quick, highly stable turn that imparts much confidence on flatland tricks. The bushings break in in minutes, just like Bones Bushings, and don't pop out, bulge, or anything else. Tighten your trucks to your preferred setting and go skate. The trucks grind well, nice and smooth, as most silver trucks do. They are predictable and stable on the grind and are easy to grind functional locks into. Smith grinds are a breeze because the kingpin is so tucked in and the top washer, being flat and low-profile, doesn't get in the way.

All in all, the Destructos are great, great trucks. Along with Theeve trucks, they have extremely high build quality. They're a different game from Theeve, though, much better suited to flatland and street courses. If you've upped your flatground and street course board to the 8.25" - 8.75" range, and you skated Ventures before, you might want to consider Destructos now.

I liked Destructo trucks enough to get a pair of 5.75 for my personal flatland/street board, an 8.25" Creature Frozen Beasts. They fit perfectly and give me all the confidence I need for learning more ballerina flatland tricks.

23 comments:

  1. Hey, I just discovered your blog, and I want to thank you for doing what you're doing. As an aging skater hitting my second renaissance I really connect with your product reviews.

    Looking forward to reading the archives.

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  2. Hi there, recently I bought a set of D2s from Amazon and am waiting for it to arrive. Is there any difference between the D2 and the D2 Pro? Or are they actually the same thing? Thanks!

    Btw these are the ones I ordered: http://www.amazon.com/Destructo-TTDD25002-D2-trucks-set/dp/B001U7LLQO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314767525&sr=8-1

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  3. Glad to hear it! They're fantastic trucks. The D2 and the D2 Pro are the same thing. Only the D2 Lite is different: it has a hollowpoint kingpin and conventional (non-core) bushings and top and bottom cupped washers.

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  4. Jasper, those D2s that you ordered from Amazon will be a 5.0, by the way, that's a 7.75" axle.

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  5. Excellent review of my favorite truck! :)

    I'm a bit upset to have recently found out that Destructo stopped making the Inverted Kingpin/Bones Licensed Bushings version.. Now they use regular kingpins and bushings. I'm currently waiting to hear back if the newer version is the same as the old (minus the inverted kingpin) if I just replace the bushings with real Bones bushings..

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  6. Brad,
    You are correct. Let's discuss.
    The D2 Lite and the D2 "remastered" use regular kingpins, albeit hollow, as well as more conventional single action bushings. Destructo is proud to say their bushings are Made in the USA, so that's part of it. But another reason is probably that they couldn't find a hollow inverted kingpin. And the top and bottom cupped washers are probably not only because of the single action bushings: 23/32 OD x 6/32 ID x 1/32 thickness flat washers - the kind used on the Destructo inverted kingpins - are extremely difficult to source. It is highly likely that Destructo custom ordered those flat washers. Using widely available cupped washers was probably another good reason to go with single action bushings. Lastly, why not Bones Licensed bushings? That's the big mystery that only Destructo can answer.
    Measurements:
    So, on my desk here, I have a disassembled Destructo D2 of the inverted kingpin type and a Destructo HollowPoint kingpin. I also have a new set of Bones Bushings and an unused set of the stock Destructo Bones Licensed bushings.

    First, the bushings. The Bones and the Bones Licensed bushings have the same measurements: 14mm height on the bottom bushings and 11mm height on the top. 25mm outer diameter and 4.75mm inner diameter. The shapes of the bushings are slightly different: the cores on the Bones Licensed bushings seem more smoothly bonded to the bushing. I'm not sure how much that will affect performance. They each weigh the same, about 0.4 ounces per set (top + bottom). So, to answer your question: you can replace the D2 Lite/remastered bushings with Bones bushings and have the same geometry. Ditch the bottom cup washer and replace the top with either a flat washer from your old D2 inverted kingpin, or order a couple of new flat washers from Mile High Skates or any other longboard store. I use flat top washers on my Ventures with Bones Bushings, and I just go to a good hardware store to find some washers. I can't find any of the right size as thin as the Destructo washers, but frankly I thought those were too thin anyway.

    The Hollowpoint Kingpin is the overall same length as the inverted kingpin: about 53.5mm. The shafts are of different length: 50mm for the Hollowpoint, 49mm for the inverted. The length of the threads is vastly different: 13mm for the Hollowpoint, 22mm for the inverted. Besides, the Hollowpoint is button capped, the inverted is hex capped. So, you can't just invert the Hollowpoint Kingpin in the D2 Lite. You'll have to buy your own inverted kingpins: Destructo and Grind King are two that I can think of.

    Replacing a kingpin is a hell of a lot of work. Ultimately, it might be better to just replace the bushings with some Bones bushings and a flat top washer and call it a day. If you do want to do that, would you be willing to trade me the D2 Lite/remastered bushings for a new set of Bones Bushings with flat or cupped washer (your choice)?

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  7. Excellent info there, Bertrand! I love your reviews! I agree with much of what you say that I too have experienced.

    I actually emailed skatewarehouse about the D2 confusion and they emailed Destructo and got me some info.

    Basically there is a D2 Pro (now discontinued), D2 (standard kingpin/remastered), and D2 Lite (hollowed kingpin). They supposedly got requests for a standard kingpin (not hollowed out) for the D2, so that's why they now make the standard D2 (I don't know why they discontinued the inverted kingpin.)

    They said that the geometry and everything on all three trucks is the EXACT same, except the inside of the baseplate is drilled differently in the Pro version for the inverted kingpin.

    They also said that I could replace the standard bushings in the D2 and D2 Lite with Bones aftermarket bushings and it would fit and function exactly like they did in the D2 Pro.

    I have a few other details about the trucks, but those are not so important.

    Still, I wonder if the new standard kingpin sits higher up than the inverted version on the D2 Pro (when tightened the same on both versions..) I have a feeling it sits higher on the newer version. The one thing I liked about the inverted kingpin is that the more you tighten your trucks, the lower the kingpin sits.. With the standard kingpin, no matter how tight you crank those trucks, that kingpin will stick out to its fixed height. Either way, I ride pretty loose trucks (more so than anyone else around here, so it's not like i'd crank the trucks tight just to lower the kingpin height.)

    I just stepped up my setup and ordered my first ever pair of 8" trucks (D2) with my first ever 8.25" deck. :) I found the trucks in the Pro version, so I decided to get those instead of the newer D2, since I don't know how high the kingpin sits on the new version..

    Hopefully the 8" trucks will play well with the 8.25" board, cos I noticed you said the trucks are actually smaller than labeled? I didn't want to get a larger set of trucks, cos I might want to move down to 8.125" or 8". I used to ride 7.75" and 7.63"

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  8. Brad, that's awesome info. What else did SW have to share?
    I really like the D2 Pro. The inverted kingpin is awesome. I, like you, ride pretty loose trucks. I like tight turning with lots of control.
    Hey, please let me know how the 8" D2 Pros work out with the 8.25" board. When you get the 8" D2 Pros, could you measure the axle and post here the actual measurement? Destructo makes the D2 in 8.25" (5.5), too. I'm thinking about doing the 5.5 with an 8.25" deck for my winter setup, but if the 8" D2s fit better, then that might be the solution in case I want to drop down to 8.1 or 8.0 again. I'm currently running 8.0" Ventures on a 7.9" Krooked for winter garage work.
    Yeah, awesome information. Thanks, Brad!

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  9. Got my new trucks and deck today! Haven't had much time to skate them good, though.

    The size of the hanger is just under 5.25" and the axel-length is 7.875" or 1/8" smaller than 8". They reach pretty well on the 8.25" zero deck that I got, and I don't notice anything weird when riding it up and down the driveway; thus far. They're a better fit for this deck that I expected, but I wouldn't try going much bigger (deck wise) for these trucks. Maybe I could email you some pics if you were interested in seeing the trucks laid out on the deck.

    I noticed the pivot cups were UBER squeaky, so I put a thin layer of vegetable oil in the cups and it stopped the squeaking completely! :)

    I also noticed the stock (Bones licensed) bushings are quite stiff compared to my new aftermarket Bones mediums, so I switched to those.

    My friend had a 8.25" deck from "Tragedy Skateboards" that he got from Nate Sherwood, and I could do such solid trix on it - I thought it MIGHT be the SIZE of the deck, but after trying this ZERO in the same size (I ride a lot of Zeros), I think it might actually had been the SHAPE of the deck.. lol I hope not, cos I like Zeros. Either I sucked tonight when testing the setup out, or the tail is steeper than the Tragedy deck and that's why my pop just isn't as amazing on the Zero. Hopefully I'll figure it all out soon with time and testing/comparing.

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  10. "I noticed the pivot cups were UBER squeaky, so I put a thin layer of vegetable oil in the cups and it stopped the squeaking completely! :)" good idea brad... I solve the problem with some bones speed cream (works also fine) =)

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  11. I have a deck 7.75

    I can put them one Destructo 137mm? is good or too big ?

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    Replies
    1. The Destructo 5.25 or 5.0 would both fit fine on a 7.75" deck. 137mm in Destructo trucks is a 5.25.

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  12. hows the grinding ? do they hang up ?

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    Replies
    1. The Destructos do not hang up. The grinding is very smooth.

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  13. I using deck size 8.625. What size should I use? The 6.25 or the 5.75??

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    Replies
    1. If you like your wheels tucked under the deck, then skate the 5.75. If you like to see your wheels a little bit, the 6.25.
      Alternatively, if you think you'll skate a bigger deck in the future, get the 6.25. Smaller deck, 5.75.
      Or, if you skate skinny wheels, try the 6.25. Wide wheels, 5.75.
      Also, check out the Permalink to truck weights and measures table in the upper right on every page on my blog - there are all the technical detail of many trucks. New trucks are being measured and added all the time.
      I myself would go with the 6.25 Destructo on an 8.625 deck, then skate skinny wheels with it. More grinding area and same great performance.

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    2. Thanks for the tips man. Really appreciated it.

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    3. Just to clarify trucks size between indy and destructo.
      Indys 169 is same as destructo 6.25?
      Indys 159 " " " destructo 5.75?
      Correct me if i am wrong.
      My current set up now is Jart Pool deck 8.625,indys 169,RatBones 60mm SpF.
      Mainly skate on pool and mini half pipes.

      My height is 1,75
      Weight 80kg
      Feet size is Us9 (Asian has small feet)

      What do you think?

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    4. Yes, Indy 169 is the same size as Destructo 6.25
      Destructo 5.75 is about the same size as Independent 149.
      Destructo doesn't have a 159 sized truck.

      The Jart Pool deck looks pretty awesome. The Destructo 6.25 trucks will be very nice to you on the mini ramp, more so than the Indy trucks because the Destructos are lighter and lower. In the pool, you'll find the Destructo 6.25 trucks won't turn as quickly as the Independents, but they will still turn and carve deeply.

      With 60mm wheels, you'll need to use risers with the Destructo 6.25: 1/8" more riser than whatever you're using with your Independent 169s. If you use one 1/8" riser now, you'll have to use two 1/8" risers with the Destructos. I would imagine you'd be pretty comfortable with 1/4" risers with either Independents or Destructos, the Destructos will just be a little lower than the Indys.

      That said, I rode my Destructo 6.25s with no risers and 57mm wheels and had no problems with wheelbite. If I were using 60mm wheels, I myself would ride one 1/8" riser on the Destructos. I do ride 60mm wheels with my Independent 159s now, and I don't use any riser.

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  14. Hi, what wheels/sizes/duro do you recommend for playing mini ramps? I using BONES SPF, i finds it slippery at some point.
    Thks man.

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    Replies
    1. In my experiences, Bones SPF is best for smooth concrete and not much else.
      I find most mini ramps to be dusty and slippery, so I use 95a or 98a durometer wheels. My favorite mini ramp wheels are Satori 98a wheels, which can even handle damp mini-ramps without slipping around.
      As for size, that is all preference. You don't need to skate huge wheels for mini ramp to keep your speed up, so whatever size you skate on street should be okay for mini ramp. I prefer 52mm Satori Linked Logo 98a wheels for mini ramps.

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    2. Thanks again for the tips again!
      I like to share a web page to you, me and a few old skool skaters here in singapore are putting up petition to our government to build us a indoor extreme facilities for extreme sports. I hoped you can sign up to help us. Even Jamie Thomas is Tweeting abt us. Spread the news for us. Thks

      http://www.change.org/petitions/i-support-local-build-a-world-class-sheltered-extreme-sports-facility

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